All Manner of Bad Manners
On a warm spring evening in front of a friend's house, I hurried with my 13-year-old into the car and shut the door. "Did something happen at the bar mitzvah?" I asked. He calmly said no and asked why. "B's father just called Daddy over to talk privately and he looked somber," I explained. "If something's up, I'd rather hear it from you."
R was as clueless as I. When my husband returned to the car he asked that he and I speak privately later.
Here's the mystery: R didn't thank our friend for driving him a long way to and from a party.
Here's the twist. The man, M, punctuated the conversation with this: "I will never drive R again."
At first I was furious at R, of course. How could he not blurt out a "Thanks!"? Doesn't that come automatically after 13 years of over-eager parenting? Other adults have long told me how polite he is with them, but then again he has reached a hormone-fueled snarly stage. To find out if his impudence is universal, I did a sneaky mom thing. I e-mailed a mother who'd had him over earlier in the day asking her to tell me, honestly, if he'd thanked her for driving him home from a soccer game and for the spaghetti lunch she'd served the boys. She replied with an enthusiastic yes.
R didn't act appropriately, for sure, so we instituted a punishment that fit the crime: We had him write M a thank you note, which I promptly mailed.
But was the to-do necessary? How would others have handled it?
As a parent of two teenage sons, I've had many years of boy visitors. Most thank me often for everything from a glass of water to a weekend sleepover. But some are rude. I've had the occasional child beg me to buy him a toy, harass me for limiting Wii time or make jokes at my expense. I stood up to each one calmly and kindly and the problem subsided.
How would I have handled a free-rider like R? First of all, I'm not positive I'd notice if one kid didn't say thank you one time. If I did, I might say playfully, "Hey R, say thank you."
In this case, R didn't say it when he arrived at the party and he says now he can't even articulate why. When they got back, my husband and I happened to have been waiting outside. As the car doors opened, we strolled over with enthusiast thank you's and how-was-the-bashes, so R may have just been thrown off -- and M was clearly mad from R's lack of manners four hours earlier.
How would you handle this? Would you ban a child from your Toyota for life? Quietly let the parent know to work on his offspring's manners? Reprimand the boy? Approach him nicely? Or shrug off the entire non-event?
Be honest. Battle it out below. I'm darn curious. And I want comment activity on my blog.
www.ronagindin.com
This very topic has been bugging me for months! I am a carpool driver of two children (not my own) who consistently do not say thank you or please week in and week out. It drives me crazy!!! I once did a favor for their mother and she did not thank me either! I thought that was where this came from. I know you and you have very lovely manners, so that is not the case here. I always think one manners mis-step does not a bad mannered person make- there has to be a repeated pattern. I have that repeated pattern and I feel like a chump for allowing it to go on...
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Sounds like the guy overreacted to me. In the rush of thanks I can see a tired, distracted child forgetting to say a personal thank you. I don't think this ones a hanging offense. Consistent rudeness? another matter entirely!
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My son's only 16 months old, so this is something I haven't dealt with yet. That being said, I think I would just shrug it off. Even the most conscientious adults sometimes forget the niceties of polite society, and it hardly seems fair to hold a 13-year-old to a higher standard.
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The blog is very cute. Oy, the teenage years. Rona, I have no advice at this point because my sons are much younger, but It sounds like you handled it correctly. Hang in there.
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It is always interesting to me that so many adults expect behavior, manners, grades, etc to be practically perfect in every way.
Mary Poppins was not a real person and perfection is unattainable. But perhaps most importantly, I have yet to meet a parent (including myself) who NEVER forgets to say please or thank you!
Any adult who gets that upset about one lost opportunity to express gratitude, needs to try to notice how many times the child DID remember to say Thanks!
I am an avid mannersista, and Have caught myself reminding adults to say thank you!
However, in this particular situation, I think that the father who gets that upset and decides to never drive the child again is being self-important and self-centered. I would talk to my son about the parent's comments and offer him a chance to call or visit the father to apologize for his indiscretion.
Rather than punishing my son, I would choose to use this opportunity to help my son learn about conflict resolution - how to confront and address a person who has been offended by his unintentional actions.
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I think you handled it perfectly and with class. The guy in the car, obviously over reacted and I'm glad he did, there has to be some people out there who are wound too tight to keep us all on our toes, and to remember that there are indeed manners. People today are way too rude. Kids are disgusting despicable characters and probably should be beaten and tarred and feather weekly just to be reminded of how rude they are. They really need to be taught to be more polite daily. They should remember to say please respect elders, and told THEY DO NOT KNOW IT ALL. Turn all electronic devices for 5 hours a day at least. And do a chore. Build some character instead of answering back. They really need to be seen and not heard. Teenagers need to clean their rooms and not run their mouths. And need to observe. They are very rude. They are embarrassing themselves, and us. And really should walk when they need to go somewhere if it too difficult to muster the appreciation to blurt out a message of gratitude.
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Sounds like the driver of R sounds did you a favor by declaring that he would no longer drive R. I would not want my son (or daughters) riding with anyone who reacts as he did over a simple forgotten "Thank you" from a 13-year old male (who is likely to forget everything). A therapist license should be required for driving teenage carpools but since it isn't, you want people who can gently nudge your teenagers when they need it - you don't want tyrants with such high standards that no one can live up their expectations. Just imagine -if R reacted the way this driver did if one of his friends forgot to bring a soccer ball to the field and R declared "I am never going to play soccer with you again". You would be even more mortified than you are by a forgotten "Thank you". Then multiply that mortification by 20, as that is what a GROWN man did - to a non-thinking teenager.
And Jennifer - I have gotten out of carpools before just because the make-up of kids in the car made life more stressful. I have found that the make of the (regular) carpool really affects my children's attitude (and mine).
Off to drive a teenage carpool
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I think that dad is way overreacting. I have certainly noticed kids with bad manners in my home. I have commented to my own children and let it go. You and Micheal did the right thing. I hope that guy feels like a jerk when he gets a written thank you.
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Well, Rona, this is clearly a case of one person's forgetfulness, and one person's childishness. When I do a favor for someone, I always think it is nice when they thank me--but I don't demand that they thank me. And I sure don't go around sulking about it like a 5 year old. R was forgetful and thoughtless in not thanking M, but M is behaving like a narcissistic, spoiled, tantrum-throwing infant. Doing a favor is no longer a favor if you EXPECT something (anything) in return. It's nice when you get a "thank you" but it's not a requirement. Go to You Tube and watch "thank you, masked man" by Lenny Bruce. And tell M to grow up.
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The adult really over reacted.
What works for me is I sometimes roll down the window and yell out "YOUR WELCOME" to the kids who don't thank me for the ride. Then everyone laughs and they usually remember the next time. My kids don't usually think it is funny, but I hope it helps them remember to say it so that another obnoxious mom doesn't do this to them. ??
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Although manners are very important it is crucial that adult show by example. The thank you letter is very appropriate but the other parent's response to never to drive your child around is at best a childish response and respresents the lose of a teaching moment. Why didn't the parent driver simply tell your child that feelings were hurt (which is obvious)and in the future "a thank you" would be be the right thing to do. But seriously a good person does good things like driving teenagers around whether or not he or she is thanked. Being a Mensch means doing the right thing whether or not we are thanked for it. That is the lession we must teach our children. If we are really going to fix the world we need to start on the most basic level and teach our children to be thankful for kindness but also to do the right thing even if there is no immediate reward. The offended driver needs to grow up and act like an adult, instead of a spoiled child who doesn't get his or her way.
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You handled the situation perfectly. The driver's conduct is much more worrisome than R's. What a putz! We always want to hear that our kids were perfectly polite, but they are actually humans, teenaged ones at that. Simple courtesy should be automatic, so maybe practice at home (yea, right!) would help.
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Wow. You did exactly the right thing, sweetie. I think the guy was a bit over the top, but it gave you a good opportunity to remind R about his manners. Another Pollyanna-ish thought: maybe you don't want R riding with someone who is that high-strung!
I look forward to your next post! Big hugs!
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As a mother of 2 teens, I've been all the places you've been and experience is similar. My kids are outrageously polite but sometimes excitement and/or circumstances throw a wrench into the simplest of situations. You've done the penance for the adult with the tku. Make certain son is apprised of all and warn how simple omissions can make huge impact. Take the opportunity for a re-up on a conflict resolution lesson. I believe the adult must have had a very bad day. His reaction was certainly overboard. He should have a penalty of driving carpool for a month.
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I think M acted rudely with his actions
Why the heck couldn't he have said,"R a thank you is always appreciated. Let me hear yours." The words "controlling prick" come to mind when thinking of M.
Total overreaction to situation Up the meds M
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Rona, very well-written and entertaining. and I really enjoyed reading all the comments. I have to say that I would choose to see it as a non-event -at least not worth losing sleep or anything else over. I think your response to your son was perfect, and hopefully the offended (offending?) Dad was just having a bad day and isn't really that hyper-critical and bitchy. Being a parent isn't easy, and there is no reason to make it harder by sweating the small stuff!
Keep writing!
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Seriously? The dad TOTALLY over=reacted and in my opinion, is being childish by making SUCH a big stink. Think if it was a mom who did the drive, she'd chalk it up to yet another day in Tween/Teenage Land. Yes, our kids should say thank you. But do they always? No. YOU show your thanks by having their kids over, driving carpools, filling in, etc.
PS. Love the blog!
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Child/Teen manners - a topic near and dear to my heart. I'd say Driving Dad handled it properly by pulling your husband aside and speaking to him quietly, but the "I'll never drive R again" seems over the top. Unless this parent is a crazy over-reactor to a one time lack of a "thank you," I'd guess there is some history between R and the parent. Or he just had a really bad day. How well do you know this other parent and their family?
I'm also the parent of two teenage boys and I've always emphasized the importance of thank yous and good manners. I can also tell you I have reprimanded other kids when their behavior was offensive. Two situations come to mind: I was referred to as "Yo" (as in "Yo, can you turn up the radio?" when driving a group of kids on a school field trip. I immediately responded in a stern voice directed at the offending kid: "My name is not "Yo. You can call me Mrs. X, you can call me Cheryl, but you may NOT call me Yo.") On another occasion my son and his friend, both about 11 or 12 at the time, were sitting on the couch playing video games. Deep into his game, the friend loudly exclaimed "Shit!" I immediately interrupted their gaming to let him know his language was unacceptable in our house. Not 5 minutes later, he did it again. I stopped them one more time and told the friend if it happened again I would immediately take him home and tell his mom what had happened. I knew his mom wouldn't approved of the language either and I told him so. In both cases, the offending behavior stopped, I never had a problem again with these kids, and I never had to approach the parents.
Having your son write a letter of apology was the right thing to do. Now I'm curious...did you get a response from Driving Dad?
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I agree with Sue...well written and entertaining and the Dad in question had a bad day!
With that said in my profession (school administrator) I have learned that there is usually more to the story if dug deeper. Why did the father only want to talk to your husband? Why did your husband want to talk to you privately? There does appear to be a piece of the puzzle missing but if I were you I would leave well enough alone and that carpool is done. I am sure that R being your son, that the lesson is learned and it won't happen again.
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